The Wing Forum
DISCUSSIONS => WINGFOIL => Topic started by: Mike dubs on May 13, 2020, 05:42:26 pm
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First go after lockdown on my Takuma 6’ 115l, Moses 1100 and 4.6 m Naish S25. Wind was more than forecast and up to 30mph and very choppy. Never even got close to standing, got to my knees and sitting a few times and got forward movement but mix of chop and too much wind saw me falling off. Learned a lot though, wasn’t expecting too much for my first go. Im75kg and a long time windsurfer and surfboard kiting. I felt a couple of times that if I’d had a sinker I might have got up.
Mike
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Sounds like a good start. Choppy conditions are very hard to learn on. What I found helpful is to get into kneeling position and fly the wing so you have a decent amount of forward speed (which will stabilize you) and then plant your forward foot, followed by your back foot, then stand. DON'T RUSH THIS PART; be deliberate and make small adjustments to foot position as needed.
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Thanks, with the chop the nose kept burying when I got some speed to get my foot up. Will try again today👍Mike
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2nd go today, was able to kneel on it much better today and moving with the wing. I even stood up on it 5 times without the foil engaging. But overall an improvement, there’s a lot to get used to with the equipment, leashes big board etc.
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At this stage, make sure you practice standing on both strong and weak sides. Don't become one of these people who cannot ride weak foot forward.
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Good tip👍 I thought that as I was getting comfortable getting up one side, so I did practice the other way too. But I can see how you could get one sided. Mike
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3rd session, still struggling to get up in the chop and on shore waves. Very unstable, maybe my board at 26.5” wide is too narrow? I am controlling wing better and standing up but struggling to get centered and even if I get going I tip off. Also struggling with both leashes, I have the board leash on a waist belt but it’s still going round the foil, the Naish wing leash also seems way too long, so might make a shorter one?
Any suggestions appreciated.
Hopefully 4th session later this week.
Mike
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I am also just learning and had my 2nd real session on the weekend. I got my wing last year, my board just arrived last week. So I had quite some time trying the wing with my ISUP. I admit it is rather slow and boring but I had enough time to practice with the wing as the SUP is so stable you don't have to think about it. (my 6.0, 144L feels rather small)
I use a foot leash for the board and did not have problems with the leash, I also use a lifevest so I don't sink to much when falling. And I try to fall to the rear of the board. I just need a longer leash for the wing - not long enough when you are on the wrong end of a 7m wing.
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3rd session, still struggling to get up in the chop and on shore waves. Very unstable, maybe my board at 26.5” wide is too narrow? I am controlling wing better and standing up but struggling to get centered and even if I get going I tip off. Also struggling with both leashes, I have the board leash on a waist belt but it’s still going round the foil, the Naish wing leash also seems way too long, so might make a shorter one?
Any suggestions appreciated.
Hopefully 4th session later this week.
Mike
Hi Mike
26" is not too narrow, but compared to other SUP Boards with that Volume, it is narrow.
It would be really easy to let you know if there is something you are doing wrong if you can get some video footage.
In my opinion, it is actually the way you stand up that makes all the difference? Can you walk us through your procedure and how you are try to stand up?
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Gunnar
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Gunnar,
Thanks. I get on the board using the wings leading edge as buoyancy on the leeward side. I balance on my knees low as I try to position myself balanced mid point on the board. I pick the wing up and fly it to get some forward movement. I then straighten myself up whilst still on my knees, I step forward with front leg and the stand with my back leg, I think I could be more precise in centering my front foot but I’m not really sure where my back foot ends up. I get some speed, feel the foil start to have an effect but then usually as I’m not centered it rails to the windward side.
Hope this explanation of what I’m doing helps. It is normally choppy or on shore white water waves coming in.
Mike
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Until I have quite a bit of wind in my wing, I find my side-to-side balance is better if my front foot is slightly off center. Same with back foot.
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3rd session, still struggling to get up in the chop and on shore waves. Very unstable, maybe my board at 26.5” wide is too narrow? I am controlling wing better and standing up but struggling to get centered and even if I get going I tip off. Also struggling with both leashes, I have the board leash on a waist belt but it’s still going round the foil, the Naish wing leash also seems way too long, so might make a shorter one?
Any suggestions appreciated.
Hopefully 4th session later this week.
Mike
Hi Mike
I know Gunnar has advised that 26" is not too narrow, and I freely acknowledge that he is one awesome foiler who is MUCH better and knows a hell of a lot more than me, but I thought it might be useful to hear from an average foiler who doesn't have the natural ability and TOW (time on water) that he has - if you have the chance to try a wider board I would strongly advise you try it. My local conditions are also VERY choppy so although I can handle a 26" wide board when conditions are flat, I found that when in choppy/messy conditions the extra 5" width made all the difference. I started with a Naish Hover which is 6'5" by 31" wide, and I have also used a friends f-one board that was the same length but 26" wide. The f-one was literally unmanageable for me in chop (acted like a bucking bronko!) but the Naish was super stable and allowed me to progress fairly quickly. I have no doubt that if I used nothing but the f-one to learn in my local area I wouldn't have made the progress I have. Now I am of a reasonable standard I can handle a much smaller board, but to start I would strongly recommend you at least try a wider board and see if it helps.
I just want to add that I'm not disagreeing with what Gunnar is saying about stance & technique etc - he knows what he's talking about!!!!!! I just know that from my own experience a wider board can make life a hell of a lot easier in choppy conditions.
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3rd session, still struggling to get up in the chop and on shore waves. Very unstable, maybe my board at 26.5” wide is too narrow? I am controlling wing better and standing up but struggling to get centered and even if I get going I tip off. Also struggling with both leashes, I have the board leash on a waist belt but it’s still going round the foil, the Naish wing leash also seems way too long, so might make a shorter one?
Any suggestions appreciated.
Hopefully 4th session later this week.
Mike
Hi Mike
I know Gunnar has advised that 26" is not too narrow, and I freely acknowledge that he is one awesome foiler who is MUCH better and knows a hell of a lot more than me, but I thought it might be useful to hear from an average foiler who doesn't have the natural ability and TOW (time on water) that he has - if you have the chance to try a wider board I would strongly advise you try it. My local conditions are also VERY choppy so although I can handle a 26" wide board when conditions are flat, I found that when in choppy/messy conditions the extra 5" width made all the difference. I started with a Naish Hover which is 6'5" by 31" wide, and I have also used a friends f-one board that was the same length but 26" wide. The f-one was literally unmanageable for me in chop (acted like a bucking bronko!) but the Naish was super stable and allowed me to progress fairly quickly. I have no doubt that if I used nothing but the f-one to learn in my local area I wouldn't have made the progress I have. Now I am of a reasonable standard I can handle a much smaller board, but to start I would strongly recommend you at least try a wider board and see if it helps.
I just want to add that I'm not disagreeing with what Gunnar is saying about stance & technique etc - he knows what he's talking about!!!!!! I just know that from my own experience a wider board can make life a hell of a lot easier in choppy conditions.
I have about 15 sessions and I agree with this 100%. There is a lot of information online about board sizing for learning and much of it is about the appropriate board volume relative to body weight. In my experience, the volume issue is important but also important is board dimensions, especially width. The current board trend is to pack in as much volume in small dimensions but I think they are making these boards too narrow. A width of 25-26 inches is pretty narrow for a beginner and if there is any chop, makes learning much harder than it needs to be. I started with a 25 inch board and then went to a 28 inch board which really helped my progression. As one improves, the width will be a hindrance to riding but when considering a board for learning, pay attention to the width, as well as volume.
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Thanks guys, I think definitely the width is more important that the volume in chop. I had my 4th session yesterday and am kneeling, flying the wing for movement and standing better each time. My front foot placement is getting better and I am more aware of the back foot. I got up on the foil 3 times yesterday for a few seconds before crashing by tilting the board too much and leaning back too much on the wing ( like a windsurf Sail), so am becoming more aware of what’s going on. I have purchased a skim board arch bar which I’m going to stick on the back of my board to help my foot find the Centre. I also found my shorter homemade wing leash easier too. So progressing, I feel slowly each time, I’m committed to my 6’ Takuma wing sup now as can’t afford to change and get a 6m wing.
I have found a less choppy spot along the coast and also a lake I think I can use as well as another spot that will be good in two wind directions at low tide. So I’m hoping the flatter water will help. I’m also trying to get a mate to tow me from his boat to help my foiling.
Thanks for the help and I’m leaving my kite gear in the garage til I’ve **** wing foiling.
Mike
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3rd session, still struggling to get up in the chop and on shore waves. Very unstable, maybe my board at 26.5” wide is too narrow? I am controlling wing better and standing up but struggling to get centered and even if I get going I tip off. Also struggling with both leashes, I have the board leash on a waist belt but it’s still going round the foil, the Naish wing leash also seems way too long, so might make a shorter one?
Any suggestions appreciated.
Hopefully 4th session later this week.
Mike
Hi Mike
I know Gunnar has advised that 26" is not too narrow, and I freely acknowledge that he is one awesome foiler who is MUCH better and knows a hell of a lot more than me, but I thought it might be useful to hear from an average foiler who doesn't have the natural ability and TOW (time on water) that he has - if you have the chance to try a wider board I would strongly advise you try it. My local conditions are also VERY choppy so although I can handle a 26" wide board when conditions are flat, I found that when in choppy/messy conditions the extra 5" width made all the difference. I started with a Naish Hover which is 6'5" by 31" wide, and I have also used a friends f-one board that was the same length but 26" wide. The f-one was literally unmanageable for me in chop (acted like a bucking bronko!) but the Naish was super stable and allowed me to progress fairly quickly. I have no doubt that if I used nothing but the f-one to learn in my local area I wouldn't have made the progress I have. Now I am of a reasonable standard I can handle a much smaller board, but to start I would strongly recommend you at least try a wider board and see if it helps.
I just want to add that I'm not disagreeing with what Gunnar is saying about stance & technique etc - he knows what he's talking about!!!!!! I just know that from my own experience a wider board can make life a hell of a lot easier in choppy conditions.
I have about 15 sessions and I agree with this 100%. There is a lot of information online about board sizing for learning and much of it is about the appropriate board volume relative to body weight. In my experience, the volume issue is important but also important is board dimensions, especially width. The current board trend is to pack in as much volume in small dimensions but I think they are making these boards too narrow. A width of 25-26 inches is pretty narrow for a beginner and if there is any chop, makes learning much harder than it needs to be. I started with a 25 inch board and then went to a 28 inch board which really helped my progression. As one improves, the width will be a hindrance to riding but when considering a board for learning, pay attention to the width, as well as volume.
You seem to have misunderstood me. I did say the 26" is narrow. It's not too narrow for most people to deal with, but still very narrow especially for a beginner.
However in the end what you have is what you use. The trend is also set my the riders in the end. Just see what is happening with everyone now believing Fanatics hype about double-concaves in the nose. It may actually be bad on a Wingfoil board, but as a lot of people believe it's good, manufacturers are making their boards like this. So if the riders want wider boards, there will be wider boards produced.
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Gunnar
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So got some flat water behind a low tide shingle Bank. Was a easy compared to the chop of last four sessions.
Standing, balancing and handling the wing fine in 18-20 mph. I got up on foil about 10 times both directions for a few seconds at a time, longest about 10 seconds, and whenotn foil happy sailing along. . My crashes were mainly touch downs nose heavy or porpoising. I was much more aware of my feet and tried to stay on the centerline just pressing occasionally with toes/heels. I had today put my mast half way back, the first four sessions in the front, and I was breaching a lot less. A kitefoiler friend has told me to try it all way back. My foil is 2100cm2 , as it does feel sometimes there’s a lot down there, but probably just my lack of skill.
Mike
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Sounds like your current challenge is pitch control. It comes pretty quickly. As far as mast placement, it is correct when your weighting is equal between both feet (legs) while foiling at steady state. As you get more comfortable, you might find a longer strut helpful.
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Thanks Phil, hoping to get another couple of flat water sessions in the next week.
Mike
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Mike,
I completely agree with Phil about you getting the pitch control. Do you have access to a boat or jet ski go to behind. Or even go rent one of those Lift efoils for 2 hours. This way you could focus specifically on the foil for an hour or two without having to deal with the wing. It would give you the muscle memory to feel the foil. What I mean by that is not actively thinking to have your feet in a specific spot for each specific point where your foil is mounted. You will know that you need your feet in a specific area, yes. But as soon as you are flying you will immediately know to adjust this foot a little here or there.
I have probably about 15-20 sessions wing foiling. But when i started winging, I did not have to think about the foil. I knew how to fly it from riding behind the boat. I had to just control my speed after the excitement of "WOOOHOOO i am flying....really fast now.....spat." Did that a few times before I realized the gas pedal was in hands.
I have probably taught about a dozen people to foil behind my boat. I start them by telling them to have their in a specific spot. But I immediately follow that up with they will have to learn the feel of too much or too little lift once they start flying by usually adjusting their front foot a little here or there. After a few minutes they understand what i am saying.
When I have moved my foil front or back to adjust for wind conditions, I do not have to actively know I am putting my front foot on a particular spot. I just start flying and adjust on the fly. If it jumps out of the water, then I throw my weight forward to get it back on the water. It is easier to that than adjsut on the fly. Then relaunch. But If I am to far forward, then it is just as easy to crap walk that foot back without missing a beat.
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Thanks, that’s helpful. Originally before lockdown my plan was to use a boat first, but his boat is still not allowed out because of insurance. As soon as it is I plan to grab some time behind it. As you say there’s a lot going on with balance, flying, foot position, wing handling etc
I do feel I’m progressing and hopefully I can get another flat water session today and keep trying until I can get some time behind the boat.
Mike
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I can fly...! flat water 13knots 6m ensis. Lots of 100-200m flights and even ended up where I started. Much more comfortable moving feet to get balance. Main take away as well is learning not to lean back against the wing like kiting and windsurf but keeping upright. I’m sure once skilled you can but in early days you end up putting too much leverage on windward rail.
Buzzing though, came together today.👍
Mike
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Nice, it only gets easier and more fun from this stage.