OK Dommo - I'll take that **** slap! I was speaking less precisely than the detail you've gone into - I certainly wasn't trying to be controversial!
I conflated volume and stability which is only partly true due to width, like you point out. Both are needed for stability.
On length... Again not trying to be controversial because what you say is right but in displacement mode (not planing) top speed is determined by waterline length - that's not disputed. A longer board glides faster than a short one. Assuming no pumping of the board (as a beginner won't be) a longer board will get up to foiling speed faster than a short one especially if using a smaller foil which needs higher speed to reach lift off. If I'm wrong on that then I'll happily stand corrected, but the physics doesn't seem illogical. It might be that most beginners are using bigger foils compared to me that this issue is not as I experienced it, as take off speed is lower.
In marginal conditions, I focus getting the board speed up, give a couple big efforts in pumping the foil, and that unsticks the board and off I go. I don't think I'm getting much forward propulsion from the board pumping but its just enough to get the board up and released to enable acceleration from the wing. The higher speed I can generate before pumping the board the easier it is.
All current foiling boards are designed assuming that they will be pumped to help get on the foil and as such will want to go short as possible to aid that, and reduce swing weight. Beginners are generally focused on pumping the wing rather than foil.
I think that's all you called me out on. Can't see all you wrote.
Your turn! ;-)
Haha, i never meant it as a slap - just can't resist a controversial discussion is all
If you're using small foils then yes, I can see how you need to have more help from length to get up on the foil, especially when learning the correct technique. Its all relative to our kit and the conditions. I started off with a 4m wing in av 12-15 knot conditions. Needless to say I had to learn to pump both the wing AND the board very quickly or I wouldn't get anywhere. I had a lightbulb moment a while back leading from when I pumped the board and the nose went up, only to stall yet again - at the time I remembered watching a video where the guy was saying that as soon as the nose comes up, to shift your weight forward and use your front foot to push forwards as well as down, and it was the forwards motion that he stressed as being the most important part. I did it and the speed that movement generates is phenomenal, and I still find it the best way to get flying when underpowered - in fact it's essential for taking off when downwinding (with a paddle not a wing) as the push from the swell is so weak. I would imagine a long board would impede this movement, so I'm sticking to my guns when recommending boards of 6'5 max for beginners. Sorry
Ha! No need to apologise and you know we're close to being in violent agreement. I wasn't suggesting everyone should learn to foil wing on 8' SUPs. What I said was that some board length has benefits to beginners which are often lost in everyone's desire to go small (reread what I wrote!).
Your last post kinda proves the point. You had to learn the right technique or you wouldn't have got anywhere. I've heard of quite a few people 'getting nowhere'. Now that could be for many reasons, but a in some of those cases they were on too small / short a board and have said as much.
You recommend mid 6' length as a max. I've learnt on something a bit longer, and don't feel like it's done me a disservice at all - even in 30+ knots, would you believe. I've had loads of fun, don't feel like it's held me back, never really struggled to get foiling, and have now reached the point where I'm after something smaller (5'6) but that's after getting a real solid foundation.
I suspect my board pumping technique is pretty terrible, and initially might not get foiling as quickly on the new board. But I'm also confident that it won't take me long to grasp because I've got all the other skills in the locker.
Peace!
Yep, we're arguing our own corners yet somehow reaching the same conclusions
Defo agree that many go too short too soon.
I seem to have fallen into the trap of assuming that what worked for me must work best for everyone, when the reality is that we all adapt to the kit we are using, and as we improve we assume it's our kit in particular that must be responsible and anything else wouldn't have been as good
Your last point is one of the things I love best about this sport - the progress is soooo fast. Try a new thing, like switching stance before or after a gybe, and for the first few days of trying I'm like, "how the hell does anyone do this?
?" Then, suddenly you nail one, and it's now like, "ohhhhhh", and after a few more attempts its, "what's everyone having problems with this for?"
Crossing my fingers we can all get back on the water soon. Take care
Thanks for all the replies.
Can anyone offer any more suggested beginner wing foil board options for a 90kg rider?
I'm open to any suggestions from around 115litres up to around 145 litres. The larger sizes would have the advantage of being able to crossover to SUP foiling.
Current suggestions as follows:
Fanatic Sky SUP Foil
- 6ft 11" x 30" / 142 litre
- 6ft 7" x 28.5" / 125 litre
Takuma SUP Foil
- 6ft 6" x 27 / 135 litre
Axis Carbon SUP Foilboard
- 6ft 8" x 28" / 120 litre
F-one Rocket Wing
- 6ft 6" x 30" / 135 litre
Indiana SUP Foil
- 6ft 2" x 30" / 130 litre
GONG SUP ZUMA 100% FOIL FSP 2X
- 6ft 6" x 30" / 120 litre
- 6ft 9" x 31" / 140 litre
Starboard Hyper Foil.
- 7ft 7" x 30" / 137 litre
- 6ft 6" x 30" / 116 litre
Thanks Knatti. I think I'm leaning towards the Fanatic Sky SUP 5'11. Even though it's probably on the big side for wing foiling, it'll be a good board to be able to learn SUP foiling too so it wont be redundant in a few months time.
sorry no advice - just another option (also beginner)
I ordered an inflatable foil board (6'0, 144L)
https://shop.indiana-paddlesurf.com/foil/inflatable-foil/indiana-6-0-wing-foil-inflatable.html
Main Idea was traveling (not at the moment) and possibility to get all the kit in the car (small one).
And it may also work on the river where it can handle bumping into stones better.
@knatti
once we are allowed to cross borders again, we should have a session together chiemsee and switch boards for a test.
That idea of travelling with an inflatable is a good one! Sounds interesting!
btw, the last 3 days have been pretty good with a strong easterly.
cheers
I think I've decided to buy a larger size wing foil board that can be used as a crossover for both wing foiling and SUP foiling... that way it wont be a waste when I progress onto a smaller board.
I've rounded it down to 2 different options either the Fanatic Sky SUP 6ft 11 (142litre) or the F-One Rocket Wing V2 6ft 6 (140litre).
The F-one board is 2kg lighter, but is marketed at winging only... does anyone know whether it would be suitable for SUP foiling too?
Please let me know your thoughts on these 2 options?
I went through the same decision process and got a +40 L board for learning to both wing and SUP. The challenge is the shape as wing-only boards don't have to be shaped for paddling. I was concerned the F-One would not paddle well. I wasn't sure about Fanatic. Seems heavy and I read some concerns about build quality. I ended up going with a Jimmy Lewis Flying V (6-5, 115 L). He makes 5 sizes. I am 70 Kg. I am very happy with my choice. It has really progressed my winging and on non wind days, it is fun to practice paddling with foil attached for eventually getting into small waves (I am currently not a very good paddler). The other boards I considered for dual use are Armstrong (3 sizes), Naish Hover and Kalama (very limited supply). Good luck and let us know what you decide on.
Thanks Phil. Unfortunately the only option you mentioned that's readily available in the UK is the Naish which I've discounted as an option as I dont think they're great value for money based only on seeing previous Naish boards.
The Fanatic does seem to be the best crossover wingfoil/ SUP foil option for boards available in the UK as far as I can see.. shame it's a bit on the heavier side though.